Zimmerway...

[Styx]

@Toni,
laut Euterpe Pianoatlas müßt des Baujahr um 1961/62 sein...irgendwas stimmt da jetzt ned:confused:

Viele Grüße

Styx

 

[agraffentoni]

@Toni,
laut Euterpe Pianoatlas müßt des Baujahr um 1961/62 sein...irgendwas stimmt da jetzt ned:confused:

Viele Grüße

Styx

Ich vermute, daß dieses Modell mit einer eigenen Nummerierung versehen wurde.
Ich kenne ein weiteres Instrument, bei dem auf der Gußplattespreize vor den Bassdämpfern geschrieben steht:
Miniatur Konzert-Flügel Modell 1914.

Die Seriennummer, wie auch die Inschrift auf der c5 Taste krieg ich noch raus.

Grüße

Toni

 

[Klimperer]

Kann es sein, dass diese Flügel an einem anderen Standort produziert wurden als in Leipzig?

Ich frage, weil z.B. Ibach hier in Südafrika produzierte, und allem Anschein nach schlicht die "1" aus der Seriennummer weggelassen hat.

Mein Klavier ist laut Verkaufsbeleg und Beschriftung der Rennermechanik aus 1970 und hat die Nr. 18501.
Das meiner Eltern ist aus 1966 (war ihr damaliger Neukauf) und hat die Nr. 10429.
Beide Nummern würden laut meiner Recherchen ganz gut in die Schwelmer Produktion passen, wenn man vorn eine "1" dranhängt, oder?

Nun überlegte ich, ob Zimmermann vielleicht auch einen eigenen Produktionsstandort (mit Sondernummerierung) für die Sonderflügel hatte. Ist nur 'ne kleine Spinnerei. :)

Wohl weiß ich, dass Zimmermann in den 1920er Jahren auch wenigstens einen anderen Namen herstellte, aber diesen Klavieren trotzdem Zimmermann-Nummern verlieh, beispielsweise mein 1922er "Otto Bach", Nr. 116 850, laut Tasteninschrift der Mitarbeiter Griesbach und Liebig: 20.9.22.

[Edit: ein Zimmermann ist es gewiss, das zeigt die Form des Gussrahmens, und die Seriennummer auf den obersten sechs Hammerkernen.]

 

[agraffentoni]

Nun überlegte ich, ob Zimmermann vielleicht auch einen eigenen Produktionsstandort (mit Sondernummerierung) für die Sonderflügel hatte. Ist nur 'ne kleine Spinnerei. :)

Das ist mit Sicherheit so, denn auf dem Resonanzbodenbild werden Fabrikationsstätten in Mölkau, Seifhennersdorf und Eilenburg abgebildet.

Grüße

Toni

 

[Anneka]

Gutentag, zwei Jahr her, von ein Australier die nicht gut Deutsch spricht. I schaue auch ein gleichbar Zimmerman Miniatur Flügel an, Nummer 200170.

Wass denken Sie?

 

[dilettant]

Hi Anneka, the pics are not displaying properly. Could you pls upload them again?

What are you about to pay for that instrument?

No matter what, evaluating the grand by pics only is rather unreliable, and of course most people here will not have any clue what the market prices in Australia are like. Or do you live here in Europe?

Cheers
- Karsten

 

[Anneka]

Ein Foto

 

[Anneka]

Hi Karsten, thanks for speaking English. I live in Western Australia. I learned German at school when I was young, but I have been struggling a little with the above conversation. Here are some more photos.

 

[Anneka]

I was curious about what the upshot of the conversation was about when the Miniature Konzert Flugel was dated. This one looks very similar, apart from "Groste" is written with a ringelS, and not "Groeste". It was fixed up 10 years ago for $25000 and the owners are now asking for half of that $12500. There's an oversupply and not much demand for old pianos though, and I think they are more likely to get $3000 - 5000 (?) for it, unless it's indeed some hidden Steinway gem or something. It sounds and looks quite lovely, though not breathtaking. The ivory is very thin. I happen to be married to a "Zimmermann" (carpenter), who often works with his carpenter brother, so that seemed nice. I am looking for a nice grand piano for in my studio, where I teach my own piano method and I like old fashioned craftmanship. On the net Zimmermann is not getting too good a wrap though.

 

[Anneka]

Anhang anzeigen 9338

 

[dilettant]

Hi Anneka,

I am not an expert, so I won't asses on that piano. However, thanks for digging out this old conversation, which is quite interesting.

Let me try summarizing what the discussion was about.

Contribution #1 presented a photography of a Zimmermann grand with serial #200733 and asked if this is really a Zimmerman because it looked so much like a Steinway M-170 and serial number suggests that it had been built in the 1960ies, although it was apparently from the 1920ies. Contribution #5 shows more photos of that instrument.

The following discussion was mainly speculations, such as that this instrument could be an original Steinway M-170 which was modified in the GDR to hide that jewel from the officials, or that Zimmerman had assembled that instrument from a spare Steinway frame, and so on.

Later on, user agraffentoni came up with information of two very similar Zimmerman grands with serial #200951 and #201182, which are clearly dated 1928 and 1929 (by pincil inscriptions on the c5 key).

So it seems the conclusion was (although not explicitly stated in the conversation), that Zimmerman has built a Steinway M-170 clone in the late twenties of the last century and surprisingly introduced a separate set of serial numbers for it.

Since your instrument seems to look very similar to the others introduced in the conversation, yours may well be one more of that series. The inscriptions on the frame as well as the serial number, which is rather close the the three others mentione above, support that assumption. Is yours 170 cm long?

About prices ... dunno what it'll be worth. That's up to you

Cheers
- Karsten

 

[dilettant]

So 12500 AUD are called? That's about 7800 EUR. Since the last restauration is already ten years past ... the strings seem to be are a bit rusty ... I don't know. On the other hand - as it seems you like the instrument - AUD 5000 would sound quite ok, if you can negotiate that.

 

[Anneka]

Thanks Karsten. Much appreciated.

 

[dilettant]

On the net Zimmermann is not getting too good a wrap though.

That doesn't mean much. After WW2, Zimmermann became East-German and that time has weakened the brand. After the German wall came down, it became third brand of the Bechstein group which added on to the image of mediocracy. This all does not necessarily mean that a 1920ies model is a bad choice.

 

[Anneka]

I'm warming to it more and more. I like the clean lines and the matt black finish. Of all the grands I have played, I like the feel and sound of this one as much as some of the more famous brands. The one piano that really captured my heart was the Fazioli F228, but I will have to teach a lot more students the piano before I can buy one of them.

 

[fisherman]

The one piano that really captured my heart was the Fazioli F228, but I will have to teach a lot more students the piano before I can buy one of them.

You don't have to teach so many. Enjoy a "little" trip to Germany, visit Steingraeber in Baviaria and check the A-170 for just 50 up to 70.000,- Euros . Or travel a few more kilometers into the "wild East" of Germany and you will be very surprised by the #170 Foerster, which is only 25-30.000,-

 

[pianochris66]

I am looking for a nice grand piano for in my studio, where I teach my own piano method and I like old fashioned craftmanship.

Hallo Anneka,

it´s OT but could you tell us something about your own method?

best regards
Christian