LMG
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- 1. Jan. 1970
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Hallo, liebe Clavios ;)
Da mir im Moment ( außer dem interessanten Wetzikon-Thread ) keine "Fackel" mit zündenden, zum Nachdenken anregenden Aussagen ins Auge sticht, also etwas "Flaute" zu herrschen scheint, möchte ich ein kleines Flämmchen ansetzen.
Dieses Mal möchte ich Euch teilhaben lassen am Beginn der 10. Lecture ( und einem Rücksprung in die 7. ) von Alexander Libermann, Schüler von Egon Petri.
Es ist, wie auch die beiden anderen bisher behandelten Teilbereiche ( Level I: Skalen und Arpeggios, und Level II: Libermanns Blaupausen ), ein Agglomerat von weitgedachten und hochentwickelten Ideen, und in nicht wenigen Clavio-Beiträgen aus letzter Zeit wurden Problematiken aus dem folgenden Bereich angesprochen. Daher als Denkansatzpunkt und evtl. Diskussionsstoff dieser Thread, vielleicht in 2 Beiträge gesplittet, da es etwas länger ist.
Der behandelte Bereich heißt: Arm, Hand, Finger, sowie "greifen".
Bitte um Konzentration, liebe Hörer! Und nicht dahinten in der letzten Reihe Unsinn machen ! ;)
********** Zitat aus: Eleven Lectures:
I was speaking last time, perhaps a little too much, about the fingers, although for me it is never too much. I have only one more thing to say about them, that we should feel a kind of attraction between the keys and the fingertips. As I said last time, the destiny of our playing depends almost wholly upon the movement of the key downward through its three-eights of an inch;
and it is always the finger that moves the key, the finger which is the first to approach it and the first to leave it.
Very often people use the method in which the arm or wrist goes down first and the finger follows. First, that is poor coordination, and second, we have the mistaken idea that we produce the tone when the fingertip reaches the surface of the key;
actually, of course, the tone comes only when the key reaches its bottom.
There is still more confusion about releasing the key.
Players often lift their arm and think they have stopped the sound, but the finger is still holding the key down. So whatever we do with the arm, it does not influence the intensity or duration of sound.
But the fingertip influences them very exactly. So we should feel as if there were some magnetic attraction or elastic that would pull our fingers to the keys first, not waiting for our forearm or something else to make a downward movement.
I shall go next to HAND. It's strange, but the hand is somehow overlooked in theoretical writings and teaching. People usually speak of arm or fingers, and unfortunately, nowadays, predominantly of arm.
Before today, they spoke only of fingers, and that was wrong, too. The hand, in my opinion, is the next most important part of our physical machine. I remind you of the two types of movement in piano playing: playing movement, which actually produces the sounds, and preparatory, which puts our fingers, hands, and arms in position to do so.
The hand is very important for both. It is like the finger in that it has the same two movements--up and down, and lateral. The nature of these movements shows you that the lateral movement, called abduction and adduction, can only be used as preparatory movements, because for actual playing we need a downward motion.
But both movements are important, since all playing is in this succession of first preparing and then playing.
First I will speak of the hand's playing movement. Its goal is exactly that of the fingers--to bring the key down, to help the fingers if their own force is not sufficient for the intensity desired.
However, I draw your attention to the fact that to help something is not to eliminate its usefulness.
Too often, when people want to help the finger with the hand or arm, the finger stops working altogether. With the hand, and possibly arm, we should ADD to the finger extertion, not replace it, and thus obtain whatever force is necessary.
We can get a very rich and I would say qualitatively GOOD forte because there is no surface noise of key-finger impact.
Remember our "cake" ( Anm. Olli: siehe ältere Threads und Aussagen ) and its varying proportions of ingredients.
The louder the tone, the more help needed for the fingers, and this comes mainly from the hand. Of course, we feel it with all our body; the body has to brace itself against this shock, and the shoulder is our main point of resistance.
But this doesn't mean to move up and down with the arm in trying to produce a sound.
What works most actively is the grasping of the fingers, or in the case of louder tones, grabbing, with the help of the hand.
...Rücksprung zu Lecture 7 .... :
[...] Now let us play something very loud and try to avoid the percussive touch.
We will do the C minor prelude of Chopin. ( A student performs this piece .)
Probably some of you were shocked by this "E natural" he played; whether it should be "E flat" instead is not a matter we can settle, because editions differ. I have a photocopy of Chopin's manuscript, and it says "E natural" , but the advocates of "E flat" assert that Chopin simply forgot to write the flat in. This is a dangerous way to prove something, especially since you will see if you look at the facsimile of the preludes how really exact Chopin was.
This is not our problem, however; I only mention it so you won't think he played a wrong note--in this case, at least.
( To the student ): Now you used an outspokenly non-percussive touch; you started from the keys, and that is a compliment already. Not only that, but you didn't make this illogical movement, pulling down the wrist, which I don't like because it is a very poor coordination.
What I DO reproach is that in this cake you used the eggs hardly at all ( Anm. Olli: "Eggs" stehen für Finger, siehe ältere Threads darüber. ) . You didn't use your fingers, except as dead tools; you set the hand and pushed it forward. This is not the worst procedure, by far, and in many cases it would be appropriate.
But for the most comfortable and best controlled movement in this piece I recommend playing chords with the active participation of the fingers.
By setting the fingers, i.e. firmly adjusting them to the chord patterns, and then pushing the arm forward we can make all the notes in each of the chords sound equally loud or soft, it's true. But in this particular case we have to bring out the melody which is "hidden" in the chords.
This can be achieved more easily and comfortably by using the "grasping" way, i.e. by using the individual fingers.
By grasping with the fingers, moving the hand down ( WRIST UP !! ) and the arm forward you would have all the ff you want as well as the gentlest pp without losing the control of each individual note.
You didn't grasp, you set the hand. The fingers are not even, however, and if you do that, the longer fingers move the keys faster, so that all the notes of one chord have not the same intensity. When I grab I can do what I like, bringing out one note, or another, or all, as I choose.
I consider a chord not as a mass, but as four or five tones played simultaneously with individual fingers.
One's intention or conception of the music may be wrong--that's another thing. But with this grasping you can do exactly as you want, whatever you want, because the finest instrument is the fingertip, and by including the finger we can control every sound better than by using a bigger unit without active participation of the fingers.
Your second mistake was that you were tense when you played. I must admit that for one fraction of a second, when I produced this chord, I tensed, too, but only for a very short moment, when I contracted the muscles to play.
Try to grasp, then immediately to relax and prepare for the next grasp!
( There is unanimous agreement that the student's sound is better this time ).
I assure you, he is not on my salary!
( Next, a student plays the Mozart C minor Fantasy. )
( To the student: ) [....] .
Zitat Ende.
LG, Olli !
Da mir im Moment ( außer dem interessanten Wetzikon-Thread ) keine "Fackel" mit zündenden, zum Nachdenken anregenden Aussagen ins Auge sticht, also etwas "Flaute" zu herrschen scheint, möchte ich ein kleines Flämmchen ansetzen.
Dieses Mal möchte ich Euch teilhaben lassen am Beginn der 10. Lecture ( und einem Rücksprung in die 7. ) von Alexander Libermann, Schüler von Egon Petri.
Es ist, wie auch die beiden anderen bisher behandelten Teilbereiche ( Level I: Skalen und Arpeggios, und Level II: Libermanns Blaupausen ), ein Agglomerat von weitgedachten und hochentwickelten Ideen, und in nicht wenigen Clavio-Beiträgen aus letzter Zeit wurden Problematiken aus dem folgenden Bereich angesprochen. Daher als Denkansatzpunkt und evtl. Diskussionsstoff dieser Thread, vielleicht in 2 Beiträge gesplittet, da es etwas länger ist.
Der behandelte Bereich heißt: Arm, Hand, Finger, sowie "greifen".
Bitte um Konzentration, liebe Hörer! Und nicht dahinten in der letzten Reihe Unsinn machen ! ;)
********** Zitat aus: Eleven Lectures:
I was speaking last time, perhaps a little too much, about the fingers, although for me it is never too much. I have only one more thing to say about them, that we should feel a kind of attraction between the keys and the fingertips. As I said last time, the destiny of our playing depends almost wholly upon the movement of the key downward through its three-eights of an inch;
and it is always the finger that moves the key, the finger which is the first to approach it and the first to leave it.
Very often people use the method in which the arm or wrist goes down first and the finger follows. First, that is poor coordination, and second, we have the mistaken idea that we produce the tone when the fingertip reaches the surface of the key;
actually, of course, the tone comes only when the key reaches its bottom.
There is still more confusion about releasing the key.
Players often lift their arm and think they have stopped the sound, but the finger is still holding the key down. So whatever we do with the arm, it does not influence the intensity or duration of sound.
But the fingertip influences them very exactly. So we should feel as if there were some magnetic attraction or elastic that would pull our fingers to the keys first, not waiting for our forearm or something else to make a downward movement.
I shall go next to HAND. It's strange, but the hand is somehow overlooked in theoretical writings and teaching. People usually speak of arm or fingers, and unfortunately, nowadays, predominantly of arm.
Before today, they spoke only of fingers, and that was wrong, too. The hand, in my opinion, is the next most important part of our physical machine. I remind you of the two types of movement in piano playing: playing movement, which actually produces the sounds, and preparatory, which puts our fingers, hands, and arms in position to do so.
The hand is very important for both. It is like the finger in that it has the same two movements--up and down, and lateral. The nature of these movements shows you that the lateral movement, called abduction and adduction, can only be used as preparatory movements, because for actual playing we need a downward motion.
But both movements are important, since all playing is in this succession of first preparing and then playing.
First I will speak of the hand's playing movement. Its goal is exactly that of the fingers--to bring the key down, to help the fingers if their own force is not sufficient for the intensity desired.
However, I draw your attention to the fact that to help something is not to eliminate its usefulness.
Too often, when people want to help the finger with the hand or arm, the finger stops working altogether. With the hand, and possibly arm, we should ADD to the finger extertion, not replace it, and thus obtain whatever force is necessary.
We can get a very rich and I would say qualitatively GOOD forte because there is no surface noise of key-finger impact.
Remember our "cake" ( Anm. Olli: siehe ältere Threads und Aussagen ) and its varying proportions of ingredients.
The louder the tone, the more help needed for the fingers, and this comes mainly from the hand. Of course, we feel it with all our body; the body has to brace itself against this shock, and the shoulder is our main point of resistance.
But this doesn't mean to move up and down with the arm in trying to produce a sound.
What works most actively is the grasping of the fingers, or in the case of louder tones, grabbing, with the help of the hand.
...Rücksprung zu Lecture 7 .... :
[...] Now let us play something very loud and try to avoid the percussive touch.
We will do the C minor prelude of Chopin. ( A student performs this piece .)
Probably some of you were shocked by this "E natural" he played; whether it should be "E flat" instead is not a matter we can settle, because editions differ. I have a photocopy of Chopin's manuscript, and it says "E natural" , but the advocates of "E flat" assert that Chopin simply forgot to write the flat in. This is a dangerous way to prove something, especially since you will see if you look at the facsimile of the preludes how really exact Chopin was.
This is not our problem, however; I only mention it so you won't think he played a wrong note--in this case, at least.
( To the student ): Now you used an outspokenly non-percussive touch; you started from the keys, and that is a compliment already. Not only that, but you didn't make this illogical movement, pulling down the wrist, which I don't like because it is a very poor coordination.
What I DO reproach is that in this cake you used the eggs hardly at all ( Anm. Olli: "Eggs" stehen für Finger, siehe ältere Threads darüber. ) . You didn't use your fingers, except as dead tools; you set the hand and pushed it forward. This is not the worst procedure, by far, and in many cases it would be appropriate.
But for the most comfortable and best controlled movement in this piece I recommend playing chords with the active participation of the fingers.
By setting the fingers, i.e. firmly adjusting them to the chord patterns, and then pushing the arm forward we can make all the notes in each of the chords sound equally loud or soft, it's true. But in this particular case we have to bring out the melody which is "hidden" in the chords.
This can be achieved more easily and comfortably by using the "grasping" way, i.e. by using the individual fingers.
By grasping with the fingers, moving the hand down ( WRIST UP !! ) and the arm forward you would have all the ff you want as well as the gentlest pp without losing the control of each individual note.
You didn't grasp, you set the hand. The fingers are not even, however, and if you do that, the longer fingers move the keys faster, so that all the notes of one chord have not the same intensity. When I grab I can do what I like, bringing out one note, or another, or all, as I choose.
I consider a chord not as a mass, but as four or five tones played simultaneously with individual fingers.
One's intention or conception of the music may be wrong--that's another thing. But with this grasping you can do exactly as you want, whatever you want, because the finest instrument is the fingertip, and by including the finger we can control every sound better than by using a bigger unit without active participation of the fingers.
Your second mistake was that you were tense when you played. I must admit that for one fraction of a second, when I produced this chord, I tensed, too, but only for a very short moment, when I contracted the muscles to play.
Try to grasp, then immediately to relax and prepare for the next grasp!
( There is unanimous agreement that the student's sound is better this time ).
I assure you, he is not on my salary!
( Next, a student plays the Mozart C minor Fantasy. )
( To the student: ) [....] .
Zitat Ende.
LG, Olli !
Zuletzt von einem Moderator bearbeitet:
:p
